تدريب Artemis III

من مدار الأرض إلى القمر والمريخ، استكشف عالم رحلات الفضاء البشرية مع ناسا كل أسبوع على البودكاست الرسمي لمركز جونسون للفضاء في هيوستن، تكساس. استمع إلى محادثات متعمقة مع رواد الفضاء والعلماء والمهندسين الذين يجعلون ذلك ممكنًا.

في الحلقة 434، تناقش ديبي أوكونيل، كبيرة مسؤولي التدريب في ناسا Artemis III، كيف يستعد الطاقم لكل مرحلة من مراحل مهمتهم، من الإطلاق إلى عمليات الالتحام والهبوط. تم تسجيل هذه الحلقة في 7 أغسطس 2026.

ليا شيشير

هيوستن لدينا بودكاست. مرحبًا بكم في البودكاست الرسمي لمركز جونسون للفضاء التابع لناسا، الحلقة 434: تدريب أرتميس الثالث. أنا ليا شيشير، وسأكون مضيفتك اليوم. في هذا البودكاست، نجلب الخبراء والعلماء والمهندسين ورواد الفضاء، كل ذلك لإعلامك بما يحدث في عالم رحلات الفضاء البشرية والمزيد.

في 9 يونيو 2026، أعلنا رسميًا عن طاقم أرتميس الثالث، ورواد فضاء ناسا راندي بريسنيك، وفرانك روبيو، وأندريه دوغلاس، ورائد فضاء وكالة الفضاء الأوروبية لوكا بارميتانو، مع بوب هاينز من ناسا كنسخة احتياطية لهم. في صباح اليوم التالي، حضر أفراد الطاقم لبدء تدريبهم. لا يدير هذا التدريب سوى كبير موظفي التكنولوجيا أو كبير مسؤولي التدريب، ديبي أوكونيل.

بصفتها كبير مسؤولي التدريب، فإن مهمة ديبي هي المساعدة في تخطيط وتطوير وتنفيذ تدريب الطاقم والمحاكاة التي تعدهم للمهمة بأكملها، من الإطلاق إلى الالتحام بمركبات الهبوط على سطح القمر التجارية، وإخراجهم من المدار، وهبوطهم على الأرض. تحدثنا معها حول ما يلزم لضمان استعداد الطاقم لكل معلم ولحظة، متوقعة وغير متوقعة، سيواجهونها في واحدة من أكثر مهام ناسا تحديًا حتى الآن.

لنفعلها

مرحبا، ديبي. شكرا جزيلا لانضمامك إلينا اليوم في هيوستن لدينا بودكاست.

ديبرا أوكونيل

أنا سعيدة لوجودي هنا

حسنًا، أريد أن أتحدث عن أرتميس 3. من الواضح أنك كبير مسؤولي التدريب. ولكن قبل أن نصل إلى ما تفعله الآن، أخبرني عن البداية. أخبرني عنك. هل كنت تعلم دائمًا أنك تريد العمل في ناسا ؟ كيف حدث ذلك ؟

نعم. لذا لا، في الواقع، لم أفعل. لم أكن أعرف. لم أكن أعرف ما أريد أن أكونه على الإطلاق في صغري. كنت أحد هؤلاء الأطفال الذين بدا أي شيء رائعًا. لم أستطع أن أقرر ما أريد أن أكون. لذلك ذهبت إلى الهندسة. لقد نجحت في ذلك في المدرسة الثانوية. كأنني سأكون مهندساً. لم تكن ناسا على راداري حتى جاء مجند، ولم تصدق أنها كانت وظيفة حقيقية. بالطبع، تقدمت بطلب. كنت منتشية، أخبرت أمي أنها لم تصدقني، ستذهبين لتدريب رواد الفضاء. مستحيل. لكنها وظيفة الأحلام. بالتأكيد.

Were you in college when you met a recruiter?

بأي مدرسة التحقت؟

إمبري ريدل في فلوريدا.

وحصلت على شهادتك في هندسة الطيران والفضاء.

نعم، حب الطائرات. هكذا وصلت إلى هناك. حتى ذلك لم يبدأ كطفل. كان والدي يسحبني إلى العروض الجوية بدلاً من الإجازات. كان الجو حارًا دائمًا، وليس شيئًا استمتعت به حتى كبرت، ثم مجرد قوة طائرة ومحرك، والذهاب أبعد وأسرع في الاستكشاف. بالطبع، هذا أثار اهتمامي. لذلك ليس من المستغرب أن أحب وظيفتي هنا لأنها تتعلق بالتأكيد.

هذا رائع للغاية. أوافقك الرأي. كل شخص لم يكبر مع الكثير من التعرض للطائرات، ولكن الآن أصبح قريبًا جدًا من حقل إلينغتون ويعمل زوجي هناك، وأنا دائمًا في رهبة من T -38s، و WB -57، والمحركات، وكيف قاموا بتجهيز WB -57 أو G5 لأي مهمة يأتون بها بعد ذلك. لذلك أحب تمامًا السحر بالطائرات. لذلك إذا تم تجنيدك عندما كنت في الكلية، فقد كانت هذه هي وظيفتك الوحيدة هنا في ناسا ؟

نعم، وظيفتي الوحيدة بدوام كامل، بالطبع. نعم، أنا هنا منذ حوالي 15 عامًا.

حسنًا، جميل. نعم، نفس الشيء هنا. تخرجت من الجامعة مباشرة، ولم أغادر أبدًا. لقد مرت 11 سنة. لذا، أخبرني المزيد عما فعلته قبل أن تصبح رئيس قسم التكنولوجيا في Artemis III.

كنت أعمل في نظام التشغيل الأخلاقي والبيئي والحراري، والتحكم في الطيران عندما بدأت، لذلك قمت بتدريب نظام الطوارئ، والنظام الحراري، و ECLS، والتحكم البيئي ودعم الحياة، والنظام، وقضيت حوالي 10 سنوات من وقتي في القيام بذلك قبل أن آتي إلى CTO. وفعلت ذلك. حصلت على القيام ببعض المشاريع الرائعة حقا، لذلك حصلت على أن أكون جزءا من DM -1، DM -2، أول بعثات التنين الأولى، وصياغة جميع الإجراءات لتلك، ثم عندما قفزت إلى كتو، سمحوا لي القيام بعمل ستارلاينر. لذلك بدأت العمل على بعض المركبات الرائعة حقًا قبل أن أقفز إلى أوريون.

وهكذا كان وقتك بصفتك إيثوس واضحًا بالنسبة لمحطة الفضاء الدولية، أليس كذلك ؟

نعم، بالنسبة لمحطة الفضاء الدولية.

أنت تصبح ذكيًا حقًا في الكثير من المركبات الفضائية المختلفة.

Yeah. Yes, this assignment was the first time that I got to jump over to Orion, so I was excited to join in. But it was a big leap to jump in, not knowing anything about Orion.

Yeah, it’s a whole new world, whole new spacecraft, whole new mission, trajectory, and plans, and very, very interesting. And so, talking about being a CTO, you mentioned that you got to do some of that work starting on Starliner. Have you done any of it for Dragon?

Yes, I was Ethos for Dragon on DM-1, DM-2, Crew-1, so I did a lot of Dragons in the early days on the ISS side. So training emergency procedures, working with SpaceX on creating some of the joint concepts.

Okay, well I want to break down the role of a CTO. What does that role consists of what does it encapsulate?

Yeah, a CTO is responsible for managing the training. So a lot of that is just putting the pieces together, but it also involves making sure we have the hardware and the facilities to train the software and the the capabilities to do some of the training. We also lead a team of incredible instructors, and I’m there to validate that the crew’s ready to go. They’re trained up.

Awesome. Well, as a CTO, what personal skills or experiences that you’ve had- do you have anything that has turned out to be unexpectedly useful in this role?

That’s a tough one. Um, I would say to hit on the unexpected part, it would be motherhood.

Really? Oh my gosh! Tell me all about this. I am, I am seated and ready.

It was actually the first thing that I told the Artemis III crew is the two things you have to know about me is I’m hard-headed and I’m a mom. The hard-headed part that was that was a joke. Right after they were assigned, we had our first training event before I even got to sit down with them, and I stood up too fast, bumped my head. It made a- everybody noticed. They all looked at me. Are you okay? So just trying to play that off is yeah. I’m hard-headed. I’m good to go. But motherhood, it is, definitely helps me deal with the chaos better to let go. The mama bear voice comes in handy when you’re running big events as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I’m I’m a mom too, and so I’m so fascinated in all that that entails. You know, you are a manager of your own schedule, obviously, but of somebody else’s schedule and time, and keeping up with everything they do and need. And that does feel a little bit like what you do as a CTO, I guess, right?

Yep. Oh, yeah. There’s a lot of parallels. You’re also constantly training little kids on new things, so you get to see how they learn best. It’s different training an adult, but the techniques are still there.

Yeah, and it’s true. Everyone learns differently, just like we say every kid is different. You know, every adult is different too. And thank goodness for it. It’d be kind of a boring world and place to work if we were all the same. But yeah, thinking about how you’d have to adapt and manage different people and and the way they learn and what they need to succeed- that is such a good connection to motherhood. I love that.

Yes, I maybe take work home too much too. My kids get to hear about- We do safety drills in my house, we do fire drills. We do evacuation drills. I there’s no turning it off on either side.

No, that’s a good thing. I mean, everybody should be doing. We haven’t done a fire drill yet, but he he’s just learned to walk. So okay, maybe carrying him. But no, I mean everybody should do that. So those are good parts of your job to take home and make sure everybody knows where to go stand and who to call and what to grab. That’s cool.

So tell me a little bit more about how you were asked to take on this role. I mean, like you said, this is a huge jump from space station to Orion. Whole new vehicle. Whole new planetary body. How were you asked to take this on, and and what did you initially think about that?

I was very ecstatic. This is a dream assignment. Super excited. I don’t think that’s how it came up across. I’m just a super stoic person, and I think my initial reaction was, “Yeah, I I will think about it.” But of course, I was jumping for joy inside. It is a big excitement. I did go home and make sure my husband was okay with it. We had a six-month-old at the time, two other kids. Like this is a career choice that is going to involve some extra time. But went back to work the next day and was like, I’m all in.

That’s so cool, and it is. I mean, being a CTO, I would think, and taking on any mission of this caliber, it does require extra time. You know, it does mean you probably work a little bit longer or later than you normally would, because we are expecting this mission to come up really quickly. Next year, 2027. That is really fast. So I know that the crew started training the day after they were assigned.

Eight A.M. the next day.

Crazy! I saw them at 4p.m. the day of the announcement. We had some folks here that were getting to interview them, and and you know we were all sending them home and saying, “Have fun at training tomorrow morning. And so you were you were there. You were ready for eight a.m. training that next day.

Of course, bumped my head and everything. No, it has been fast and furious.

Moving into Artemis III specifically, what does a normal day look like for you as a CTO?

A normal day… I think what is consistent from day to day, as I’m rarely at my desk. I spend most of my time in front of a cockpit trainer with the crew members, or over in Building 9 in a mockup, or in Building 5 in a sim with the crew members. So I spend most of my time with the crew. But if I’m not there, I’m in a meeting or creating a PowerPoint, so that’s really the the day to day of what being a CTO is.

So, do you attend every single simulation or training?

I do not. No, and I don’t need to. I couldn’t even if I tried. We have multiple training events going on at any given point, so there could be two or three training events that we have the crew split up. But I don’t need to. We have the instructors there teaching the lessons. Most of the time I am not the actual one teaching it, but I am there to make sure that the training is consistent. It’s moving forward. It’s fitting together nicely, and that we’re going to meet our target, which is next year. So it’s a really quick turnaround. So making sure that we’re on track.

The CTO for Artemis II was Jacki Mahaffey. We talked to her back on episode 353, and she was the first person to train a crew for flying in Orion. So, have you gotten to spend much time with her to learn about how she did things? Has she told you what to expect? You know, what are the lessons learned there?

Yeah, she was the first person, and so far the only other person to have that role, so I have absolutely spent some time with her. Luckily, she did not go far after the assignment. She got promoted to actually be my my management, so we we do get to see each other on a weekly basis. And she’s been incredible in making sure that we’re moving in the right direction and helping us out.

Yeah, I was going to say it must be nice to have her close. I feel like she could get in Orion and probably fly to the Moon herself.

That with the sims, she jumps in and is able to fill the role,

And that’ll be you by the time that you’re done with Artemis III. That’s crazy.

I hope so. Yes, I want to be a Jacki when I grow up.

I think a lot of people would agree. It’s very cool, and she’s great at what she does. So, what are some of the lessons learned that we picked up from Artemis II and that training period that are being carried over to Artemis III?

Yeah, Jacki started with pretty much nothing. Like she had to create the training products, the training flow, the facilities, making sure we had the hardware and the software to do the training. So she did a huge building block that I am building off of to find the most efficient way to get through the training flow. We’re trying to do it much faster now. As for new technology, we’re of course improving things. But I think my favorite my favorite addition that we have since Artemis II is we have now the ability to play back the cruise sim performance. Yeah. So after they support a sim, we can play it back with them and point out certain areas of where they could do better, or where their teamwork could improve, or the verbiage that they used, or maybe even what they saw in the display. We can play that back and show it to them as a learning opportunity.

I think another thing too has to be the fact that we’ve now flown humans on Orion.

Yeah, we’ve learned a lot.

Yeah, and a lot about everything from the ECLS system, Environmental Control, and Life Support system, to just living for people inside that space for an amount of time. And I think having them available to discuss lessons learned directly with the crew has to be helpful. But I’m thinking too about something I know that we do for missions on SpaceX’s Dragon is we have the audio from the spacecraft that you can play for the crew, so they know what to expect whenever you know the reaction control system is maneuvering or we’re pivoting to starfield maneuvers or something like that. So, do we have anything new like that from Artemis II, or were we initially using the sounds from Artemis I for that?

We were, we were, and then we got feedback from this last mission of what was accurate and what wasn’t. That’s great. So we are already incorporating those into our our simulations, updating the sound files. We try to make it as realistic as possible. It really helps with the fidelity of the the training and making sure it’s effective.

Yeah, that’s very cool. I mean, I think even about the training that happens in the Neutral Buoyancy Laboratory, where astronauts are practicing for a spacewalk, and they also practice for moonwalks now. But you know, you hear them after they conduct a spacewalk outside the space station say that it is so similar to what we have in the NBL. They felt so prepared, and I think that hopefully, with the cadence of these Artemis missions continuing, it just gets to that point of wow. You know, trans lunar ejection burn sounded the exact same, or everything on the displays was exactly as I expected, and the image in the window looked just like it did that day, and so I think it’s just very cool now that we’re starting to get real human data. How we can incorporate that and make it even more like reality.

Absolutely, always improving.

So, can you give me a rundown of some of the different courses the crew is required to take as part of their training.

Yeah, so we have divided it up into different sections, and what they’re in right now is fundamentals, which sounds like a 101-type lesson, but it’s like that on steroids. So it’s it’s the crash course of Orion. We’re trying to hit all the high points. So it it is like two weeks of very intense training.

After that, they’ll move into you know what it’s like to do a burn. They have procedures and steps that they have to perform every time we translate Orion. And then we just jump right into you know malfunctions, ascent malfunctions, entry malfunctions. We we try to train for all the worst case scenarios. After that, you know, we we’re we get the opportunity to to practice getting in and out of the the vehicle, making sure that that’s nice and smooth. But most of the crew’s time, we spend on doing simulations. We spend a lot of time over in Building 5 running through simulations in our mockup over there.

So, for all the simulations that the crew does, are those always simultaneous with the flight control team, or do they sometimes do simulations that is it’s just for the crew?

We do both. It’s really we have the option to do what we need to do. Most of our simulations will be with the flight control team because working as one big team is what we’re shooting for. But we do have some crew-only sims where we can do malfunctions that maybe just aren’t that exciting for the flight control team, like losing communication with the capsule. The flight control team just loses all their data, has, no one to talk to. So it it’s not as exciting. Whereas that’s when the crew role really picks up.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Another portion of training that I find really interesting is just life inside Orion, and I mean they have to learn everything from how to store their content to even picking out food. So they’re going to do their food tasting and training, and do they get to select what they’re gonna fly for each individual crew member? How does all that work?

Yes, yeah, they get to do food tastings. In my mind, it sounds a lot like when you’re getting married and you get to you know try some cake, but it’s it’s a little bit more of a a decision. They’re you know they’re predicting what food they’re gonna eat a year from now. That’s a big decision from from me.

Yeah, me too.

I would I would struggle with that. But they do get some day in the life training. We go through stowage. We go through trash. We go through how you store things and where we store things. The the the. Day to day life operations is really what they’ll spend most of their time doing, and being prepared for that, so that they could be efficient and not be frustrated by it. You know, that’s what we’re shooting for.

Yeah. What do you think is the most challenging part of training for the crew? I mean, I know that they’ve only been hit like feet to the pavement, pounding the pavement for a couple of months now, but what do you think is most challenging?

You know, I think the most challenging part is what they’re in right now. It’s the very beginning. It’s it’s a fire hose of information. It’s it’s a square wave. They have to take in a lot of information and start processing just so many different aspects of the vehicle. So it’s hard. It’s hard to get started, but then once they get their feet under them, it just moves a little bit smoother.

That makes perfect sense. So tell me a little bit about Artemis III as a crew. You’re probably the person that’s getting to know them best as a unit at this point. So tell me a little bit more about how they work together.

They’re an all-star team. I’d say the the thing that stands out to me is that they’re all very dedicated to this mission. They’re all in to be a test pilot, to to make the next step forward so that we can go to the Moon.

That’s very cool. I mean, this is a different mission than anything we’ve done in a long time since Apollo. Getting the opportunity to dock with you know commercial landers. So I think that would probably be as Victor Glover was saying, talking about the proximity operations demonstration on Artemis II. This also has to be a test pilot’s dream, getting ready to to dock with commercial landers. Very cool.

It has to be, yes.

Can you tell me a little bit about each crew member, what they bring to the table, how it’s been to work with them?

Yeah, I think their background is incredible. They are overqualified for this this role. Like they all came in with excellent backgrounds, and really, what makes them so perfect for this assignment.

So Komrade, Randy Bresnik, he was the the exploration lead in the astronaut office before this assignment. So he had his hands on everything for Artemis II. So he has he has incredible background in the history that’s been happening with Orion over the last 10 years. He’s probably one of the most knowledgeable people on Orion, with with the history that’s, just the evolution that has occurred.

And then you have Dre, of course, Andre, who as the backup crew member for Artemis II, Andre already knows most of everything we’re going to teach him. He is bringing in that experience and the the techniques that the Artemis II crew did. He’s able to bring that to the table and share that with this crew.

Then we have, let’s see, Luca. Luca and Randy both have, to me, it seems like very similar backgrounds. That’s probably why they work together so well. But they both come from a test pilot world. Both come from a military background, and then of course, Luca is well known for his experiences on the ISS and handling stressful situations. And you could see that in training already that he is calm, cool, and collected.

And then you got Frank, who who has this medical background that is exceptional, and then comes with all of that knowledge that none of the other crew members are coming to the table with. So that that is pretty unique when you you come from a medical background, and invaluable when you’re in space.

Yeah, for them to be- I mean, they do have a lot of similarities, but they each do bring something so interesting and dynamic and different because when I think about Frank too, you know, he ended up staying on the space station a little longer than he expected as well, and so he’s really good at adapting to you know changes and situations. And like you mentioned Luca and staying cool under stress and and I remember filming something with Randy, or Komrade, back in it must have been like 2017 or 2018 about Orion. So he, I mean, he probably eats, sleeps, and breathes this. And I feel like they’re all a little bit spoiled to have the experience that Andre has had going through all this training before. And so, like you said, he knows what to expect. I feel like, I mean, he’s not a cheat sheet, obviously, but it’s it’s got to be so nice to have someone who has seen this from start to finish and can be a go-to for them. So I’m very excited to see this crew eventually fly. I mean, it’s it’s a great group.

Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. You said it better than I did there.

No, I don’t think so. I’m I’m just excited. So how does training a crew for Artemis differ than training a crew for the space station? Besides, you know, the fact that it’s Orion and maybe the Moon, things like that.

Yeah, I think the the biggest difference to me is that for Orion, we’re still developing the ops concepts, the hardware, the the vehicle is still being developed while we’re doing the training. So for ISS, the mission is pretty set when you start training. You you know roughly what you need to do, and some of the experiments that’ll be on board, and you can you can really train towards that for Orion, the mission the mission is set, but the timeline is still up in the air, and the ops concepts they’re still being developed while we’re training. So you really have to focus on general skills and vehicle knowledge so that it can all come together in the 11th hour when everything’s been decided, and you know exactly what the mission’s going to be.

That’s a great point. I mean, versus we’ve had people flying on the Space Station coming up for 26 continuous years now, and so that is quite a drastic difference versus one space flight of humans on Orion for 10 days. So, very, very, very good point on we’re building it as it’s being flown.

What is something that the public might be surprised to learn about from astronaut training for Artemis missions?

I think the most surprising thing is how little of our training I want them to use in flight.

That’s a good point.

Like we spend most of our time training worst case scenarios, different failure things that could go wrong, and ideally nothing-

Nothing off nominal happens during the mission. But by practicing all of those failures, they’re learning the process. They’re working as a team. There’s a lot of skills that are applicable, but the exact scenarios we train, I hope they never use it.

Yeah, no, that’s a great point because I mean there’s there’s so much work that goes into preventing a really bad day and preparing for a really bad day, and everybody’s hope is that hey, I’m working on this thing that you never touch or that you never have to call to mind, which is such a funny a funny thing, but it gives people peace of mind and it gives you confidence in the mission, and it gives the crew confidence in the spacecraft and the ground teams, knowing that every single little item has been worked through. That’s a very, very funny and great point. Hoping that they never have to call back what it’s like to execute a fire response or something like that.

Yep, exactly.

Tell me about training so far. Is there a moment that has stood out to you, just in in some way? If it’s good, if it’s challenging, anything unexpected yet?

What stood out the most was actually last week. We got the crew all suited up, and we put them in the capsule like it was the day of launch, and we walked and talked through some things. But just watching them on the video feed, all four of them in there, all suited up, it felt real.

It it felt like watching Artemis II Crew on launch day. So that’s when I first got the goosebumps, and I’m like, this is really happening. This is real. Like this is what it’s going to feel like on launch day. So I mean, I that was just an exciting moment.

It’s so cool. I see it in my mind, kind of like those scenes in a movie where you’re watching something real time, but then you flash forward to what’s coming up, and then it’s launch day all of a sudden, you flash back to that moment. I don’t know

Exactly. I went into mom mode. I took a bunch of pictures.

Good. I’m sure they’ll appreciate that, and you’ll thank yourself too when they launch next year. So, talking about training, you know, you were you were saying earlier how it’s part of your job to make sure everyone is totally finalized in what they need to know. How do you know when- what officially marks the end of training? How do you know that they are ready to go fly the spacecraft?

That’s a great question. You really know once you get in a sim and you just see the entire team, not just the crew, but the entire team working together well. And we won’t have everything perfected and nailed down, just perfect. But when we get to a point where we are solving problems together and we’re doing it in a timely fashion, you you see that transition and you know you’re ready.

That’s very exciting, and it just so happens that usually coincides with launch day. So. How do you kind of make that schedule? Like you pick or you know the target launch time, and you work backwards from that on how how to make sure everyone’s trained up on their system.

Yeah, we absolutely train all the way up to launch day. We don’t waste any, any of the time. Yes, you you have the ability to morph training with the time frame that you have. We have focused on trying to find the most efficient way to train, which is why we’re throwing the crew in so much faster and at a base level of knowledge that you know typically we would give them more background before we throw them in a simulation where they’ll see things that they’ve never seen before. This time we’re not. We’re throwing them in early. They’ve never seen these procedures before. They may have never even heard of some of this hardware, but we’re giving them instructor that can like teach in the moment, and we’re learning together. It’s it’s a fast and furious way to learn. It’s a little- It’s probably a little bit frustrating. I don’t know. I’m not in their their seat, but I can imagine it would be a little bit frustrating to try to get up to speed really fast. But they are doing excellent. We’re like four simulations in, and they they have already improved so much. They are able to execute the timeline, stay up with the timeline, solve problems. So it is so exciting to see.

Yeah, I can’t say I’m surprised. These are four really sharp guys.

Yeah, that’s very cool. So tell me, let’s imagine it’s next year, and imagine it’s launch day. Where will you be, and what will you? What do you think you’ll be feeling on that day?

I hope I am at KSC watching them launch live in person. Probably crying. I will be excited. I’ll be nervous. You know, I’ll definitely be in mama mode of like I care about these people, and we just spent the last year training our butts off. But so excited to see them launch.

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to to be at a launch, especially for Artemis. I can’t even imagine, and especially knowing how close you’ll be to them at that point. Really, seeing your friends going to space-very cool. But during the mission, what will you be doing? You’ll be we be here at JSC.

I will be here. Yes, plugged in, glued in as much as I can to this mission while it’s happening. Like this is this is what we’ve worked for, and we’re expecting to learn so much during this mission, that I will be glued to the TV or to the FCR, you know, watching every minute of it.

Let’s assume that the mission is going super smoothly. What do you think the most critical phase of Artemis III is from a training perspective?

Rendezvous, absolutely. That is that is the new untested thing that we are doing. So meeting up with HLS, our landers, and docking for the first time-that is what we plan on focusing most of our training on.

So we talked about preparing for a bad day, but what are the unknown unknowns that you also have to plan for? Like, how do you even plan for that? How do you even determine what that is?

I feel like this is a trick question. How do I plan for the unknown unknowns? Like I said, everything is being developed while we’re training. We don’t have the luxury of it just being done and ready, and we know exactly what to train. So that is a big part of it: is just being prepared for things to evolve and to change last minute. So whenever we can focus on a generic skill or just a generic technique, we we absolutely do that. And then I am expecting things to come up that I didn’t plan for, so I factor that into the time that we have to train.

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